Wednesday, January 30, 2008

Snarker’s Choice

I know, another post about politics. Ugh, right? But with less than a week to go before I vote in California’s primary as part of Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious Tuesday, I’ll be perfectly honest and tell you that I am torn. Like horribly, hopelessly, haplessly torn. On one hand, I like Hillary Clinton. I think she is smart. I think she would make a great president. Plus I’m tired of men running the world. On the other hand I like Barack Obama. I think he is smart. I think he would make a great president. Plus I’m tired of white men running the world. I think in my heart I want to vote for Hillary, but my head says it’s more shrewd to go with Barack. Of course, in the end, I will whole-heartedly support whoever wins the nomination. But right now, I’m in the midst of a “Sophie’s Choice”-like dilemma. Sigh.

So, for the second day in a row, I’m forced to say, “Let’s go to the videotape!” Sadly, there’s considerably less frisking in these clips. But, you do get to see some crazy dancing in that last one courtesy “Ugly Betty” herself America Ferrera.

Team Barack


Team Hillary


p.s. If you’ve made up your mind, feel free to try to convince me in the comments. Let’s just keep the conversation cordial, OK?

50 comments:

Jessie said...

Totally agree!! I like both of them, to be honest. Their voting records are almost identical. I would love to see a woman president or a black president (not that I would vote based on only race or gender). Either way, I think we'll have a good nominee.

I have to wonder if Hillary is electable in a general election. Nothing will rally the republican base like the name "Clinton."

My vote doesn't make a difference because my state's primary isn't until May ... so I will vote for whoever the nominee is. So yeah ... kinda worried on that!

Vote Hillary said...

Okay, I'll bite.
Barack vs. Hillary.
While I admire Caroline Kennedy, any weight her endorsement may have carried with me, is more than counter -balanced by the endorsement of Ted. Ted is not a representative of change, but of the status quo. Barack is without a doubt, a powerful, inspirational speaker. But the power comes from his speech writers, and the inspiration of speeches, does not generally inspire the Congress and Congress has to be the impetus for change. Barack sidesteps everything. Yes, he made a speech against the war while a state rep, but since then, he's never made any substantial effort to end the war, or the funding for the war. He makes noise about how the war is wrong, but that's all he does, he doesn't act to back up his noise.
And as far as him being another Jack Kennedy? ROFL ... he's got no military service, and hardly any legislative experience. He is no Jack Kennedy.

Hillary has been the lead dog since the beginning of the race, and so everyone has taken their shots at her. She has stood her ground, and stood strong. She has not simply thrown a coat of paint over the falling down house and tried to sell it to us as new. She has spoken the truth, even when the truth hurts. She has experience, intelligence, and contrary to my earlier opinions, proved to be an inspirational speaker, and yes, able to unite.

And, if I may borrow the words of Julia Sugarbaker, you must remember:
In general it has been the men who have done the raping and the robbing and the killing and the war-mongering for the last two thousand years.... and it's been the men who have done the pillaging and the beheading and the subjecating of whole races into slavery. It has been the men who have done the law making and the money making and the most of the mischief making! So if the world isn't quite what you had in mind you have only the men to thank!!

XotiqueJaz said...

Wow, - vote Hillary hit it on the nose! There is a lot more difference between a man and a woman in the way they think, act, react, make decisions, etc. then between a black man vs. white man. Men are men and I am not hating on them but women who have ruled in other countries generally do an excellent job. I like both Hillary and Barack but I was upset when B took a shot at H for her vote on the war and he was out stomping and didn't cast a vote. Isn't that what they get paid for? I would have love to see Colin Powell for President, Condie Rice - I would love to know what she really thinks of her boss? I definitely won't vote for any of the Republicans we have this time. I don't want to convince anyone - just vote your heart!

Amanda said...

I'm voting for Hillary. When an employer goes to hire someone for a job they first look at experience. It's that simple. Hillary knows what she's talking about, she's dealt with the bullshit, she knows what she wants for this country and she's probably one of the smartest candidates this country has ever seen. I think if you just look at a few weeks ago when she got a little teary-eyed at a public question of "how does she do it?" She answered "It's not easy, it's not easy. I couldn't do it if I didn't just passionately believe it was the right thing to do," she said, her voice cracking. "I have so many ideas for this country and I just don't want to see us fall backwards as a nation. This is very personal for me" (WSJ). I don't think you'll see any other candidates reacting like that. It sums it up for me. Hillary is campaigning for us, for you, me, for everyone, not just herself. I believe she can really make a change for me personally and for our country. I can't wait to finally vote for the first time in my life. I can't wait for change.

pins said...

I feel torn between the two, same as you. And I hate it!

I'm leaning towards Hillary, but could be swayed.

Our primary isn't until late, so it probably won't be an issue for me, but I wish we were voting next week so it would force me decide!

trebs said...

I'm not an Us citizen (I'm Italian), so I won't vote.

But I'd still like to write what I think about the whole thing, at least because who's the Us President will affect also our lives in Europe (and in the world, so far).

I used to like Hillary Clinton, before she changed her mind on the health care system reform. My girlfriend still supports her. And, as a woman myslef, I'd like to see a woman leading the Us.

But I'd rather prefer Barack Obama.
I like the way he speaks. And if Hillary Clinton will win the elections, tha same two family (Bush & Clinton) wil be running the biggest democracy in the West for 20 years. That doesn't sound very democratic to me. Democracy is also a matter of alternation and access to power for every one.

The possible election of Hillary Clinton would in same way prove that not every one in the west biggest democracy can access to power. You must have such a surname, you have to belong to such circles. That's not fair to me.

I know it's not an affermative argument. But to me it's overwhelming.

I hope you can understand what I wrote, my English's not perfect ;-)
Cheers from italy

GoGo said...

nah. I am totally where your at. Do you think in the end, they run the ticket together, one being vp for the other? That's my guess, if they can stop playing politics with each other that is...

~gg

jennifer from pittsburgh said...

A couple of weeks ago I was in a mini mart buying coffee and the paper and the clerk asked me if I was going for Hillary or Obama and I said either. But that answer bothered me and I started thinking about who I actually do prefer.
Hillary. I believe that she's got the specifics nailed down on how to turn the country around. Plus,if Hillary wins, just imagine how Chris Matthews' head will explode! I've never seen men so scared of anything as what they are of Hillary - and that includes Obama.

Plush said...

I'm Canadian so I can't vote in your election. I would vote Hilary, she has more experience than Obama plus a women I admire, Maya Angelou, endorses Hilary. So many men seem afraid of Hilary and want to her fail. Obama has more charisma than Hilary and I feel that is it.

I don't know about the states but here in Canada we feel they are all the same once they get into the office.

Anonymous said...

Like you, I struggled before casting my mail in ballot. To make my decision, I picked the issue most important to me - health care, and did my research. In the end, I went with Hillary because I feel she has the best handle on how broken the current system is and how to fix it. Her experience trying to get health care reform during Bill's administration had to have been a learning experience. She won't make the same mistakes; we can't afford a learning curve on this issue.

That being said, I could and would definitely support Barack Obama if he ends up being the nominee, and definitely think that they'd be a great President/VP pair. The only thing that makes me nervous is the degree of hatred the Republican party powers that be have for the Clintons. That means a really nasty campaign, and with Bill running amok shooting from the hip, the American public could decide that they don't want any more of that bitter partisanship after the last sixteen years. McCain could end up winning and we could end up with his VP running the country given his age.

confident in Hillary's vision and ability said...

I'm probably dreaming, but I'd love to see Clinton/Obama '08 and '12 with Obama stepping up in 2016. I think that the C/O (experience + inspiration combo) would squash any Republican in the fall.

Why do I want Hillary at the top of the ticket? Well, I like Obama--he's charismatic and intelligent, but I think Hillary has more know-how, guts, and determination to push progressive policies into legislation. While I like Obama's bipartisan message, I don't think that it is very realistic; we've seen the Dems bullied in Congress and give in to Republican demands even when the Dems are in the majority. There are important issues like universal health care (including mandates!), troop withdrawal from Iraq, and progressive environmental policies that I don't want to see weakened by the Republicans. I don't think compromise and bipartisanship is always the solution--not if you want to get progressive policies enacted.

On a personal note, I also identify with Hillary's inner Tracy Flick. She's is a workhouse who has gotten as far as she has by being strong, determined, and savvy. As a young person trying to get ahead (long hours as an academic), I respect that. Well, she's crazy-smart, too, and can certainly hold her own in a policy debate.

People hold her last name against her, but I honestly don't think a woman in the US could make it this far without the name recognition, and that's sad. I don't think being a Clinton should diminish her candidacy, however. Of course it's just speculation, but I don't think she would be a viable candidate if she had Obama's experience. In other words, a "Betty Obama" would have practically no shot regardless of message and charisma.

Anyway, I voted (early) for Hillary because I think she would make the best president in 2008.

confident lady said...

Ok, I meant that Hillary is a "workhorse"--not a "workhouse." Or perhaps I just inadvertently coined a new term. Maybe it refers to a person who can really schmooze--work not just a room , but the entire house. Eh, sorry for the aside.

wyrmoftheflame said...

VOTE HILLARY 'O8 it's the only choice people!!!

xxx

Moose said...

[i]Edwards burst out of the starting gate with a flurry of progressive policy ideas _ he was the first to offer a plan for universal health care, the first to call on Congress to pull funding for the war, and he led the charge that lobbyists have too much power in Washington and need to be reigned in.[/i]

My support was with John Edwards, so I suppose I'll support the candidate he endorses. Ultimately, there really isn't much difference between Clinton and Obama, but I'm really just not crazy about either one. Neither seems to be as concerned about the social issues as much as Edwards.

Amanda said...

I'm similarly torn. I'll gladly vote for whoever gets the democratic nomination (on a side note, there are rumors of Edwards dropping out today).

However, I think this video may have swayed me:
Barack + Ellen + dancing = My vote?

Collins said...

i once was undecided between the two, just like you. but i settled on obama because of his inclusivity of the LGBT community. i realize these civil rights concerns are not the only issues facing our country at this time. but it is also true that on the issues (iraq, economy, health care, education) obama and clinton differ minimally. both are for ending the war. both are for reducing the national debt and increasing aid to the poor and helping the disappearing middle class. both are for universal health care. and both are for reworking NCLB. where they differ is in how they view their identity as a unifier or a divider. i think andrew sullivan at the atlantic sums it up the best...

Obama and The Gays

If you're a Democrat, it isn't really a contest. We all know the record of the Clintons on gay equality. In the words of Melissa Etheridge, they "threw us under the bus" when it was politically expedient for them (after they'd bled the gay community financially dry). Here are a few YouTubes of Obama's public, proud and often risky defenses of gay and lesbian equality - in front of non-gay audiences and not prompted by questions. The Ebenezer sermon, when he called on black congregants in MLK's church not to condemn or ostracize their "gay brothers and sisters" (after the 9 minute mark). The AU speech (around the 9 minute mark again). His stump speech, "Countdown To Change." Obama was the only Democratic candidate to mention gay and lesbian equality in his announcement address. In South Carolina, he spoke of the importance of gay outreach to religious voters.

if you are interested, the links to the speeches mentioned above are found at the andrew's original post.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/01/obama-and-the-g.html

vote for change!
vote hope!
vote obama!

Madame President ... get use to it said...

As a long time and devout fan of Melissa Etheridge, let me say that her statement that Clinton threw us under the bus was not only false, it was irresponsible.
Bill Clinton got passed what he was able to get passed, and at the time, that was a HUGE step forward for gay and lesbian rights. Was it far enough? No, but it was merely the first step in a long journey.
Dennis Kucinich may have been the only candidate to endorse same sex MARRIAGE, but I guarantee you, he's not the only one who believes in it. The others just know that their electability decreases tenfold if they were to publicly state that. And the fact is, they have to get elected President, before they can accomplish anything as President.-----------------

That being said, I think Barack and Hillary are about the same on equality. It burns me up though, when they, or anyone else says that it should remain a state's right issue. I pay taxes to the federal government too, and not being able to be married, increases those taxes. The federal government must address this inequality sooner or later.

Vote for wisdom said...

Most of the comments against Barack Obama is that he lacks experience but I truly believe that intelligence and wisdom are far more important. Hillary Clinton is by all accounts an intelligent women but her decisions in the past have been off the mark. So basically it doesn't matter to me if someone has experience if their experience has lead to failures (i.e. her National Health Care Plan) or poor costly descisions (i.e. her vote to enter into war). I recently read why Obama opposed the war even when those around him succumb to the pressures at that time. He stated in 2002: "I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than the best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda. ... I am not opposed to all wars. What I'm opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs of lives lost and in hardships borne. ... A war based not on reason but on politics."
After reading this, I could only believe that he was truly a wise individual that would not only stand up and fight for his beliefs but that he would make decisions that he thought were best for the country and that is the kind of president that I desire.
I want true change and he is the only candidate that makes me truly believe that it is possible.

Moose said...

When candidates say the issue of gay marriage "should be left up to the states" is really code for "I don't want to talk about this issue." And, really, why does gay marriage have to pop-up in every election? Don't get me wrong, I am all for being able to marry my partner, but the issue shouldn't be a government decision. It just chaps my *ss. I guess we have the Republican/Conservative/"Christians" to thank for that.

AskALesbian said...

I can't help but wonder about Caroline Kennedy's thoughts. Is she thinking that this could have been her brother's time?

I totally respect the Kennedy endorsement, but have to vote for Hillary because of her experience.

Thanks for the post!

cappuccinogirl said...

I'm not a US citizen, but I am a UK one (ok, so we can't actually be citizens, but that's besides the point!), and to me, Obama smacks of Tony Blair. He's such an inspirational person and really moves the crowds, but in the long term has been absolutely awful for the country. It was a case of all talk and inspiration and doing very few positive things.

On the basis of that, I'd go with Hillary Clinton. She strikes me as a realist who will actually get the job done, perhaps without the glitz and glamour of Obama, but here in Germany we've got Angela Merkel and she's doing a rather fine job indeed.

Megan said...

Hillary has made the decision easy for me - Obama gets my vote. Dynastic leadership is not what this country needs or should have. And the way Bill has been campaigning, I'm not sure anyone has told him he's not the one running. Their mistruths and divisive speech are something Obama transcends effectively, making it obvious he will be able to hold his own once he has to campaign against the Republican nominee.

And as for Hillary's "experience", Obama has four more years experience in elected office than she does. (He has 11 years to her 7)

jetgirl said...

I say go with your heart. Honestly, let's look at it this way, it can't get much worse than 8 years of Shrub.

Let's also not forget that her hubby pulled us out of recession when he was prez. He is definitely a great asset to her.

While we're on that, how awesome/funny/appropriate would it be for the first First Husband in history to be Bill Clinton? lol

Obama has great speeches and is inspiring but I'm afraid that all we'll get from him is that. We'll see. If he was the nom, I'd vote for him, but my vote goes to Hillary first.

Linda said...

hi gals

re xotiquejaz's comment: "women who have ruled in other countries generally do an excellent job". i would take huge issue with that, as i lived/suffered through the Thatcher years in Britain - she famously said "i'm not a woman, i'm a Conservative", and also "there's no such thing as community, only individuals". we're still paying the social price for her policies - which included draconian anti-gay ones - 18 years after she left office....

just because the candidate is a woman doesn't mean she'd be the best in the job (much as i'd love to see a woman President at some point - how about Betty Suarez??).

from this side of the Atlantic, i get the horrible feeling that the old maxim "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" is starting to creep into the Clinton campaign. it's been reported here - i don't know if it's accurate - that the Clintons have been trying to play the 'race' card in a bit of an underhand way (by implying that white folks wouldn't vote for Obama, so he may as well give it up), which smacks of being so desperate for power that you'd say anything to get it. i hope i'm wrong - the Clintons have done the best they can for LGBT issues Stateside, considering the neo-con climate over there on social issues - but it seems to be turning a wee bit distasteful.

whoever you vote for, the rest of the world (i.e. the vast majority of humanity) is just glad that Bush can't be re-elected!

Plush said...

There has been good women and bad women rulers. Let us not say that women will be better some have not and some have. Not all men have been bad and many have been good.

Cogz said...

As Sally Field said at the Emmys last year when she received the "Best Actress" award:

"If women were to rule the world, there wouldn't be any goddamn war in the first place!"

Too right...

Change = Hillary, the realist
Change = Barack, the idealist

pod said...

obama
hillary's "experience" is being a president's wife and completely fucking up her effort at giving people health service.
sorry i can do without that. no more bushes. no more clintons.
new blood. be daring. take a leap.
i believe in a world where we are belong if someone is the first woman. first black. first anything. vote in who rocks your boat.

aussie said...

Pitting the popularity/charm quotient of Hillary and Obama almost reminds me of how in 2004, a whole lot of suckers ended up preferring George Bush's "aww, shucks" country charm over John Kerry's seeming over-liberal snootiness.

Not that I'm qualified to vote there since I'm an Australian citizen, but anyway, here's my $0.02(with the falling value of your dollar, that may soon be equivalent to AU$0.02, hehehe):

My vote would go to Hillary, because I feel that she has a real desire to change her country for the better instead of just ambition to get to the top. She's a somewhat nerdy realist/workaholic who would lose in spades when it comes to celebrity endorsements and popularity but she'll be the one who'll be strong enough to run the country and steer it back from the brink.

Agree that the best outcome would be for Hillary and Obama to team up with Obama as vice president. He can start learning detailed policy-making and strategy from her, and then be more than ready to take over from her some day. But right now, when I hear his speeches, I can see how people find him wonderful and inspiring to listen to, but not really finding much substance.

Btw, I'm a woman and a person of colour and feel very insulted when people automatically assume that I would vote on the basis of my race or gender alone without as much as a glance as policy offerings!

delurk said...

The main thing that stops me with Hillary Clinton is her authorization for military action against Iraq, and then - when she should certainly have learned a lesson - her authorization relative to Iran. Ack! So, since my first pick has left the race now, it's Obama.

Pyewacket said...

Dear Ms. Dorothy...I wish you much luck with coming to a decision in this matter. I am an independent and so will not be voting in the primary come Super Tuesday. But I, too, scratch my head over this...although I guess others will be making the decision for me when it comes to either Hillary or Barack. On one hand, I agree with others when it comes to having concerns about book-ending 8 years of a Bush Administration with Clinton Administrations...yet I keep waiting to hear more substance from Barack as we need someon capable of digging us out of this mighty big hole we are in. So all I can say is...good luck!

Lula de Montes said...

I can't vote in the US elections, but my SO can and will (from abroad). Many expats tend to vote for the Republican candidate, so she thought that she would try to make a small difference this time around.

Like you she (and I) are torn on this issue. It's hard to separate the mediatization of the campaigns from the reality, which is that this person may potentially be your President for the next four years.

I feel that it's no longer about the message, but about how the message is packaged. Barack Obama gives brilliant speeches, but what about the substance of his speeches. Hillary Clinton can be emotional, but will she deliver when the time is there.

At the end of the day, do you believe what they are promising in the run-up to this nomination? 'I will do this, give you that, etc.'.
Once you are in the White House, there are so many other factors that will influence decision-making, including the many powerful lobbyists that make up the Washington scene.

It's one thing to be the senator of a state, it's a whole different matter to be in the driver's seat of a nation.

In conclusion, I feel that you should try to find out as much as you can about the candidate's track record. Has he/she in the past kept their promises, worked towards upgrading the standard of life in his/her state, improve conditions for people at every level of society? There is a strong indication that they will continue to do this once they are elected.
And finally, keep an eye on the Republican camp. Depending on who will run on their ticket, you will need a candidate who can run against this person and win the hearts of the Republican electorate and sway those of the last-minute deciders.

slacker said...

The republicans are flat-out honest that they hate teh gay. The democrats will toss us under teh bus to please the church folk. Even so, I have to vote democrat. I can't vote 3rd party and we can't have 4 more years of republican. But at this point, I don't care.

However for ANYONE who wonders WHY VOTE? -- We've got several old supreme court justices. Want to see another Scalia? Alito? Want to see men who want to run women's lives? Who want to run gay people's lives? Then stay silent, and you'll help get those people on the court.

Women fought for the vote! People of color fought for the vote! Don't ignore the power you have....VOTE!

jetgirl said...

I'm assuming most of DS readers are democrat or independent - regardless, please VOTE! Whoever gets the nomination, go out and vote - it's very scary to think that the Supreme Court is dangerously close to leaning in the conservative side.

Anonymous said...

Vote Hillary Clinton.

She's smart and have tons of experience in politics. Also the world respect Hillary Clinton and her family, which is a very important factor. The USA needs to win back the worlds respect again. Very, very important.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone noticed that there has NEVER been a woman president in the US?! Why is a vote for a woman not seen as much a change as a vote for a Black man?

So please don't make it sound like Hillary Clinton is just a vote for the same old same old.

She is NOT her husband and if we believe his influence will be dominant, we are insulting her intelligence and ability.

As for those who have criticised her position on Health Care: does anyone remember her Health Care Plan that she tried to get get passed in Bill Clinton's first term? Wasn't it the Republicans who tore it to shreds??? This next GOP will be in a different position, if she wins. The Democrats now have a majority in the House, unlike during Bill's first term in office.

The misogyny in the mainstream press and even liberal blogs like Huffpost is relentless, and the whole idea of Obama being "fresh change" is overstating his position. I believe a lot of it is spin. Its buzz rather than substance. He is funded by as many corporate baddies as anyone else.

And as for Obama being a symbol of the fact that anyone has access to power in the US: codswallop! Don't believe it. He is as beholden to the faceless corporations who have funded his campaign as the other candidates. EG. He has been generously funded by the Corporation that's been behind the sub-prime scandal in the US.

jess said...

I'm a lifelong democrat, longtime political junkie, a recent follower of this blog, and a first time commentor. It took me forever to decide who to vote for - after months of research I eventually ended up finding out that Hillary was the candidate for me. I'm in awe of her intellect and passion - she spends hours reading hundreds of pages of briefing memos each night - she's determined to have all the facts to make the best, most informed decision possible. I truly respect her, and believe she is best prepared to lead this country.

One last thing - I had an internship with the Clinton campaign over winter break, and I was lucky enough to meet/have conversations with Amber, America, and Chelsea. What you saw in that video is the total truth - wonderful people, passionate, and so down to earth - they all thanked me for giving up my winter break to work for Hillary. So yes - Hillary '08!

Anonymous said...

Im so annoyed that people make such a big deal over a black president. I mean, doesn't this seem a little racist to some people? This suggests that a black man can do a better job over a white man...surely the colour of a persons skin shouldn't immediately make them a better or a worse president? What makes a white president more able then a black one? And vice versa. I just don't like the way people immediately go for Obama and make a massive deal because he's black. It would not be this massive hoo-ha if he was white. I'm not racist at all,not by any means... but i do think there are equal rights now and we should listen to what the actual candidates have to say about what they will do to change. Of course, then there's the argument that Hillary is a woman and what makes her more able/less able then a man? Gender issues again. Personally i do think woman and men would do things differently, but i do think the colour of a persons skin would make a difference...

ronia said...

I do support Obama, and it's not because he's black. It's because he is very thoughtful, and also practical, and I think he is someone who could build the coalitions necessary to get things done in this country.

I also agree with the poster who pointed out that Barack's political experience is more extensive than most people realize (he has held elected office for more time than Hilary).

I would like to see a woman president, but I would not base my decision on gender, or an assumption that a woman will be more likely to have my interests at heart (see Exhibit A: Margaret Thatcher.)

I really think the "black person versus woman" divide is ridiculous. Black and female are not mutually exclusive categories.

Finally, while I will vote for whoever the democratic candidate turns out to be come November, some of the Clinton campaign strategies of late - implying that South Carolina always goes black so it doesn't matter that Barack won it, misrepresenting Barack's record on issues like choice and other issues - really have not impressed me. It looks underhanded and also like they don't have anything better to challenge Barack with.

ronia said...

Im so annoyed that people make such a big deal over a black president. I mean, doesn't this seem a little racist to some people? This suggests that a black man can do a better job over a white man...

I think what it reflects is that, just like we haven't ever had a female president, we haven't ever had a non-white president. Both would be important firsts.

ronia said...

I like both Hillary and Barack but I was upset when B took a shot at H for her vote on the war and he was out stomping and didn't cast a vote.

Barack was in the Illinois state legislature at the time of the vote on the war in 2003 - so it is not correct that he somehow failed to appear to vote in the US Senate. He was elected to the US Senate in 2004.

ronia said...

I have to go to work, so I have to stop posting comments, but I want to post this link, if anyone is interested, because it responds to some of the misinformation about Barack Obama:

http://factcheck.barackobama.com/

ronia said...

Ok, last comment.

I'm not a US citizen, but I am a UK one (ok, so we can't actually be citizens, but that's besides the point!), and to me, Obama smacks of Tony Blair. He's such an inspirational person and really moves the crowds, but in the long term has been absolutely awful for the country. It was a case of all talk and inspiration and doing very few positive things.

On the basis of that, I'd go with Hillary Clinton. She strikes me as a realist who will actually get the job done, perhaps without the glitz and glamour of Obama, but here in Germany we've got Angela Merkel and she's doing a rather fine job indeed.


This was interesting to me, because at the time Blair became PM in 1997, he was likened to, and closely supported by, then-US President Bill Clinton.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,916233,00.html

This has been an interesting post, and as you can tell, I've gotten a lot from people's comments. Obviously we are going to have different opinions, but I think it is good to discuss these things, and, however you decide, I would urge people to read up and follow up, because this is an important decision we are going to be making this year.

Now I really do have to go to work...

Hillary Rocks! said...

All due respect, but there is no relevance to the fact that Barack has held an elected office longer than Hillary.
Some of the most powerful people in this country have never been elected.
Karl Rove? The Cabinet members are not elected. Nor the Attorney General or The Supreme Court.

COOLes said...

Could Barack POSSIBLY tell me why I should vote for him, instead of telling me why I shouldn't vote for Hillary?

Me thinks not. Hillary's my vote.

ronia said...

All due respect, but there is no relevance to the fact that Barack has held an elected office longer than Hillary.

Hilary's campaign has made "experience" an issue in the campaign, for example, when Hilary herself comments that we can't afford on the job training for our next president.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/11/19/obama_and_clinton_sound_simila.html

COOLes said...

Experience matters. Not necessarily experience as an elected official.

Anonymous said...

Imagine a Clinton/Obama ticket?

He's a poet and idealist, she's a warrior and realist. If they can find a way to make it work together, the world will be an awesome place to live in, again.

Lesbian, Latina 30- something Lawyer said...

It is a close call, I was also undecided. I heard Obama speak this week in Denver and he is extraordinary, as Hillary said herself in the video.

It required plenty of research on my part. I am an attorney and it required plenty of effort to distinguish the candidates and make a decision. It was time well spent, because I felt an obligation to educate myself rather than go on gut feelings.

After careful consideration, I am voting for Hillary in our caucus on Tuesday. Nobody can make your mind up for you. I read everything I could, and I am confident that I made the correct decision.

The New York Times has a good tool showing the transcript and the video of the debate in California. When it comes right down to it, I agree with Hillary more.

I can honestly say that I am voting with both my Heart and my brain on Tuesday.

ronia said...

Interesting:

http://www.selectsmart.com/president/2008.html

Fanny said...

I'm French, I'm a Woman, I'm bisexual, I'm white, if I were American I would go for Barrack.

Why ?

Even though I'm a feminist I thnik Hillary and Her husband lied a lot, got involved in some corrupted affairs in the past.
I think they are clever but not really honest.
They've allways been or had power.

Barrack Obama comes from a minority, one that has never been in power or rarely in a powerful developped country.
He has worked with people as a social worker and knows betterand has a better insight in the flaws of the social security systeme for exemple.
He knows that this country needs "social justice"
I would be very admirative if American chose him to represent the Democrat party in the general elections.

I'm glad you'd go anyway for the democrat candidate whoever is chosen.