tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post4000565624814866566..comments2024-03-28T07:25:19.546-07:00Comments on Dorothy Surrenders: My Weekend ContemplationDorothy Snarkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10143059192565751994noreply@blogger.comBlogger95125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-31658579091911470332009-10-20T06:07:22.718-07:002009-10-20T06:07:22.718-07:00whoopi's lost me. what he did was indefensible...whoopi's lost me. what he did was indefensible. he admitted to it and got a sweet deal, still couldnt hack it and fucked off to the havens of europe and his 'art'. well fuck that noise. thank you Ms Snarker for distilling my fermenting but incoherent thoughts on the subject. you rock. whoopi goldberg does not rock. she is defending the indefensible. no more View for me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-46478077077744127042009-10-15T01:14:07.180-07:002009-10-15T01:14:07.180-07:00Oh Ms. Snarker, you write it so well. I appreciat...Oh Ms. Snarker, you write it so well. I appreciate, respect and admire the film work of Roman Polanski, yet this does not mean that I would excuse his abuse of a young girl. Sex with a minor can never be consensual and no amount of passage of time can ameliorate the impact of this crime. I wonder if the signaturees of the afore mentioned petitions gave consideration to how they would feel if the abuse involved their daughter or son.gidgetgirl777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-79403855776799580982009-10-11T21:05:01.978-07:002009-10-11T21:05:01.978-07:00amen and amen. all of that and more. karma never...amen and amen. all of that and more. karma never forgets.ellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01534457628722673877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-23505190318405313282009-10-09T21:36:59.590-07:002009-10-09T21:36:59.590-07:00It is amazing that Hollywood wonders why most of A...It is amazing that Hollywood wonders why most of America doesn't understand them. Roman has had 36 years to enjoy his freedom and be creative. <br /><br />The real question is why didn't the Justice Department get him sooner. When the Right wing roasts the Hollywood crowd for protecting a rapist of children, it isn't too far from the truth.<br /><br />Sad. Hopefully Obama doesn't pardon Roman. We shall see.TechFem50https://www.blogger.com/profile/07358605262627439974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-12801511999243689602009-10-09T08:35:42.697-07:002009-10-09T08:35:42.697-07:00First of all, I stopped watching the View, which w...First of all, I stopped watching the View, which was a hoot, because of that Elizabeth. I sent the View a couple of letters stating that I would no longer watch because of the republican moron.<br /><br />I started watching again while the moron was on maternity leave (her constantly reproducing distresses me to no end). Then Whoopi broke my heart. When I went to write the View they had taken down the email link. When I attempted, several times, to contact ABC's email, it was down. I hope other women are writing the message I had.sharon kinsellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07516765528967532059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-53980965359358503892009-10-07T22:38:49.043-07:002009-10-07T22:38:49.043-07:00Anonymous,
Since you purport to know me so well t...Anonymous,<br /><br />Since you purport to know me so well the following should not be news to you. I am in training to become a RAINN volunteer for the online hotline. As such, I and thousands of current volunteers receive information about how rape victims process rape and how many report it and how many don't and why. Rape is a common crime; since one is commited every 2.5 minutes in the US, plenty of statistics and firsthand information are available. If it wasn't, no one who counsels rape victims, be they hotline volunteers, psychiatrists, counselors, therapists, psychologists, or yes, even meditation teachers, would be able to do their job and not a single victim would ever have been able to recover from it and move on. <br /><br />I quoted the meditation teacher because what she said was relevant to your situation. Nothing becomes forgiveable until it is part of your past, and it can't be past until you have talked about it enough in the present that it stops frightening or upsetting you. That goes for rape as well as anything else in life that tears people apart.<br /><br />Before I go any further, I want to state that wanting to die is horrible, but that the choice you gave was between rape and death, not life and death. The healthy response would be that you would rather assume the emotional risk of trying to heal than give it all up to die.<br /><br />Though I have no direct experience of rape myself, thankfully, something is happening now that parallels the Roman Polanski case and affects my family. When my brother was six years old, he began taking violin lessons from the wife of a man who was just indicted on over 50 counts of sexual assault with a minor for multiple rapes of his young female cello students, all of which started when they were around 13 years of age, and some of which continued into adulthood. The longest time period was six years. Four or five victims have come forward so far, and authorities suspect there might be many more because of the sophisticated way that he selected and coerced his victims. Joel Ferren and his wife came to our house several times for dinner, and it makes me sick that we ever let him get that close. <br /><br />Joel used fame to lure his victims in in a similar way to Roman. He claimed, falsely, to be a cultural ambassador to France and a baron. He told the girls that he had property in France that they could visit, and that it was normal in France for older men there to have relationships with young girls. I heard these same stories from him myself when my family would come to my brother's recital. I was saved from the fate of his victims because I never believed his lies.<br /><br />Joel wasn't famous, but he was smart enough to know that famous people, people with wealth and power, can find enough people to buy into their fame to protect them from just about anything. Including rape. There are plenty of examples available of the wanton abuse of power by the powerful, but the Roman Polanski case must have been the one closest to his heart.<br /><br />Rape is rape, no matter who does it: a family member, a friend, a trusted teacher, a stranger, or a celebrity. Rape is rape, no matter who the victim is: you, a friend, a celebrity, or a nobody. NOW has a petition for people to sign who believe just that, and I hope you will sign it. They are also organizing protests at movie theaters around the country on October 11 regarding Roman Polanski. I will support them in my hometown, and I hope you will in yours. And though strangers we remain, I hope it doesn't need said: I remain where I started: on your side, trying to find ways to help you heal.ysubassoonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-47693273323874857982009-10-07T03:50:43.626-07:002009-10-07T03:50:43.626-07:00Quite. Bloody. Right.Quite. Bloody. Right.Beckyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11493279139488215211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-72211895113841243852009-10-06T14:22:50.798-07:002009-10-06T14:22:50.798-07:00Anonymous @ 1:51 am
You're blaming a woman, l...Anonymous @ 1:51 am<br /><br />You're blaming a woman, living under heavy patriarchal societal influence, for the child's rape? Uh huh. *headdesk*Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-21341384260434250152009-10-05T01:51:37.145-07:002009-10-05T01:51:37.145-07:00yes, she was raped.
But it is often forgotten tha...yes, she was raped. <br />But it is often forgotten that we are talking about a child, who was left to her own devices by her own mother, and who admitted to having had sex with her boyfriend only a short time before that. <br />The question thus has to be asked, in what kind of an environment this child was living and who is really to blame. <br /><br />As for Polanski - I do think that he is/has been trying to escape his responsibility. I do not condone at all what he has done but I fear that a fair trial is out of the question.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-69938728503863869342009-10-04T20:31:07.335-07:002009-10-04T20:31:07.335-07:00Dorothy, thank you so much for a wonderful post.Dorothy, thank you so much for a wonderful post.betseybnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-26529533690471590482009-10-04T19:55:02.663-07:002009-10-04T19:55:02.663-07:00thank you for the post. felt like i should comment...thank you for the post. felt like i should comment, considering some of the comments made. i appreciate your blog and your opinion. it is clear to me that you believe in social justice and that warms my heart.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-32595439937398793652009-10-04T18:36:12.236-07:002009-10-04T18:36:12.236-07:00I am so fucking dissapointed in the human race rig...I am so fucking dissapointed in the human race right now. I mean, I think it should be noted that whole of the hollywood MALE elite has run round in support of this man. Call them progressive in as many different adjectives as you want but this case of 'patriachy' should be a real wake up call. I actually cried tears when I read about the support for Polanski. I can't even finnish what I want to say properly. As a victim of sexual abuse I can tell you (famous directors) no matter how big or clever the world tells you that you are, commiting a sexual act on a human being against her will is a gross atrocity and can NEVER be commended. AND should be punnished. I don't think that Polanski should be killed or caused pain, because I don't feel that two wrongs make a right, but he should be brought to the right kind of justice. THIS justice, that he's been avoiding for decades because he KNOWS he's wrong. Whatever that means. And he's not that inspired a director.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-10324196981612421862009-10-04T14:05:50.752-07:002009-10-04T14:05:50.752-07:00Mary, you just hit the bulls eye twice. There'...Mary, you just hit the bulls eye twice. There's no doubt that if this happened today instead of 32 years ago, the mother would be facing charges and Child Welfare would be involved.<br /><br />If you read the pre-sentencing report, there's an undercurrent of "boys will be boys" concerning Polanski. The official who wrote it was far more solicitous of the perpetrator than the victim. <br /><br />Probably the most sickening aspect, though, is Anjelica Houston's testimony. She wasn't there when Polanski and the girl arrived at the house (that was someone else who actually drank champagne with them both), but she did interrupt the sexual activity by knocking on the bedroom door. She's incredibly casual about all this and cavalier about the girl--"Well, she could have been 25". I call bullshit. I'm sure both she and Nicholson knew about Polanski's preference for underage girls and they just didn't care. Talk about being an enabler.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-3789213246481241082009-10-04T10:02:09.932-07:002009-10-04T10:02:09.932-07:00A couple months ago I watched a documentary about ...A couple months ago I watched a documentary about this whole horrific episode. I wondered then as I do now if a court tried this case today would he have gotten out of the country so easily? Also, would the mother have had some criminal charges slapped on her as well since she used her daughter as a pawn to get in with Polanski? Regardless of the details, No means No, yo.Marynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-56614260900343091532009-10-04T04:52:50.434-07:002009-10-04T04:52:50.434-07:00Thank.
You.
I'm French, and the reaction of th...Thank.<br />You.<br />I'm French, and the reaction of the French government, and all these "artists" who were "shocked" about all this and wanted him to be released is just BULLSHIT.<br />Im quite ashamed, I wish people would just shut up and realise that no one is above the law, that is all.<br />Great post, eloquent and very true indeed.Mariehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07540990872782702322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-44066096012780981152009-10-04T04:26:56.670-07:002009-10-04T04:26:56.670-07:00Yes, we do not know the thinking behind the petiti...Yes, we do not know the thinking behind the petition signing of these women that many of us admire for their work. Perhaps those who have ways of contacting them, fansites etc. might want to consider challenging them to explain their decision.dcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-87660123213027988282009-10-04T02:58:31.195-07:002009-10-04T02:58:31.195-07:00If ever you wanted to gain an insight into the pow...If ever you wanted to gain an insight into the power imbalance that underpinned this crime (and so many like it) you just need to read the victim's rendering of the word "cuddliness" for cunnilingus. He's a pederist who drugged and raped a defenseless child who was asking for her mother. Like many pederists, he may have a steady day job and he even might be quite good at it. But he's a pederist and a rapist and should face justice. And it seems very likely that he will. Jack Nicholson seems to be staying very quiet....not only but alsonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-56257853977613225742009-10-03T19:51:53.150-07:002009-10-03T19:51:53.150-07:00Thanks for the compliment, Big Shamu and others--I...Thanks for the compliment, Big Shamu and others--I do enjoy teaching. Maybe in my next job (I'm currently looking) I'll get a full-time gig.<br /><br />In the meantime let's thank Dorothy for providing the forum for an interesting exchange of views.FrannyMaenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-8563369520326478102009-10-03T16:23:58.735-07:002009-10-03T16:23:58.735-07:00sad. how can so many people think that any amount ...sad. how can so many people think that any amount of talent can let a person get away with this crime?Lisanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-37125727563256767592009-10-03T13:17:06.078-07:002009-10-03T13:17:06.078-07:00I agree with you completely. Thank you so much.I agree with you completely. Thank you so much.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-30272987082365663262009-10-03T12:59:34.828-07:002009-10-03T12:59:34.828-07:00I agree with everything you said, and thank you fo...I agree with everything you said, and thank you for saying it, Dorothy. And for those women who have defended Polanski - women I admire(d) - I must admit I admire them a little less now.Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09184264847544085102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-68571937898306788112009-10-03T12:48:15.020-07:002009-10-03T12:48:15.020-07:00FrannyMae said: Don't high schools teach this ...FrannyMae said: Don't high schools teach this anymore? Yikes...Some of the comments posted here are just unbelievable.<br /><br />God, I know. I've been facepalming my way through this thread, too. <br /><br />I really shouldn't be able to muster any surprise at how many American are willing to show off how little they know about their own system of law and government.<br /><br />If you can show some ID, you can vote or serve on a jury, because American democracy has come to mean little more than the unfettered right to inflict one's ignorance on one's countryment as far and wide, and as frequently as possible.<br /><br />America, fuck yeah!the crustybastardhttp://thecrustybastard.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-23096688161967237052009-10-03T12:24:09.146-07:002009-10-03T12:24:09.146-07:00Thank you, Dorothy Snarker. Thank you for posting ...Thank you, Dorothy Snarker. Thank you for posting an eloquent rebuttal to the preposterous 'defenses' of Polanski. Thank you for linking to people who share this (seeminly minority) view, since I'd only seen Kate Harding's before now. [I know Kevin Smith tweeted his non-support of Polanski, but haven't heard of many others.)<br /><br />And most especially, thank you for not using the victim's name. One thing that I wish more people agreed upon is that if she wants to stay out of all of this, she should really have that right. After dealing with the publicity of this for 30+ years, she should be able to opt out if she so chooses. <br /><br />As for the anonymous who's been posting a bunch - thank you for making me think about how some of this rhetoric could sound to someone in your situation. The nature of his crime is relevant (this isn't a traffic ticket that he walked out on), but there's a difference between appreciating the nature of the crime and launching into cries of 'how devastating.' FWIW, I don't think that this post gets into that territory but other coverage (the View, especially), has definitely gone there. <br /><br />Lastly, thank you FrannyMae, for filling in the gaps in my legal knowledge. Legal basics would have been MUCH more helpful in high school than the 7th repetition of the American Revolution!alicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03182612141561309090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-21934178685795164652009-10-03T12:12:21.203-07:002009-10-03T12:12:21.203-07:00@Pickpocket
I hope you are being sarcastic. I can...@Pickpocket<br />I hope you are being sarcastic. I can definitely tell you why I am worked up about it. Yes, I believe that a rapist should be punished and I believe that someone who openly uses his fame, talent, and money to flee justice should be held accountable. But what I am most worked up about is the message it gives to rape victims and potential rape victims.<br /><br />Most rape survivors don't report their rapes. I for one did not report my rape because I did not want to be the one on trial. I did not want to be called a liar, that the rape was really consensual. I did not want to be told it was my fault. I did not want to be told that being raped was not that big of a deal. I did not want to go through the trial only to see the rapists not be punished. Reading about the Polanski fiasco makes me believe that my deepest fears were correct. <br /><br />Here we have a rich and famous 40 year-old director drugging and orally, vaginally, and anally raping a 13 year-old girl, and people are arguing that she seduced him, it was not rape-rape, it was her mother's fault, she wasn't even a virgin, the judge was a meany when he was not going to approve of time-served + probation(!), Polanski was the victim because he couldn't come back to the U.S. after he raped a girl and then fled to escape sentencing, etc. This is pretty much the most clearcut case of rape imaginable. If we let such a high profile case of rape go unpunished, if we make excuses for a rapist who flaunts his desire for "f--king young girls," what does that say to female (and male) victims everywhere? I believe that it tells them even the clearest case of rape won't be brought to justice and if they report a rape where the circumstances are not so clear, they will be laughed out of court. <br /><br />If we let Polanski off the hook, how can we expect rape victims to report rapes? How can any of us have faith in the system and feel safe? This is a case that will affect all of us.Andra8888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26871122.post-18807245353753267002009-10-03T09:20:01.045-07:002009-10-03T09:20:01.045-07:00The Mormons and the Muslims are already marrying t...The Mormons and the Muslims are already marrying their girls at that age, condemning them to lives of subservience. I don't get why people on either side of the Polanski issue are so hepped over this "moral cause" when it's just one trivial Lolita event in a world of the oppression of women. Shows more than anything how fat, dumb and mindless Americans are to devote so much attention to celebrity instead of reality.Michelle and Lorahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08035921228707992155noreply@blogger.com